Redeemable Curve Points

Perhaps we could revamp Curve Cash to Curve Points and have them spendable as well as redeemable for things (Curve could work out some deals with retailers?)

For instance as Curve eventually chase the goal of giving Curve Cash back with every purchase (as they expand their revenue streams to hopefully improve upon their product and allow this for Metal and Black card holders)

They could then let us redeem these for things like Avios Points etc

Hi Reechan,

So we can best forward your suggestion onto our team, can you give me an example of how you would imagine/like this to work & are there any specific merchants that you would like to be able to redeem points with?

Do you benefit from this type of rewards programme with any of your personal debit/credit cards?

I’m presuming Curve would use the interchange fee + some subscription leftover funds to sweeten the deal (as in I’m sure there are people underutilizing their Curve card) they would then enter into agreements with merchants where you could buy into their loyalty scheme with it (example: redeeming avios points)

British Airways and other airlines is really the only merchants I’m interested in, to be honest.

EU regulation strangling American Express cards has really killed this kind of thing, considering they just ruled that British Airways card is considered same as a four party card.

I’m sure @NFH could elaborate if required.

Not currently, I just put my purchases through the British Airways Executive Club.

However if I did have an American Express card and wanted to transition to using Curve… I would definitely be looking for something to replace the points I’d be missing :slight_smile: maybe something to replace the free Amex loading for Metal users? I have no trouble with paying fees for premium cards if they match up to the price tag.

Should Curve not become irresistible in the near future I’d probably be going towards using Starling + Amex Preferred Rewards Gold Card and just stuffing all of my spending through a mixture of the two.

Naturally though I have like 500 accounts so Curve would be nice, especially pairing in the insurance :slight_smile:

I mean, they pay at least as much in interchange fees as they get on personal cards (more if you have a credit card as your underlying card), so I can’t imagine they’ll be funding anything out of interchange fees. If anything they need the subscription fees to make up for interchange fee losses.

1 Like

Here’s the full judgment:

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:62016CJ0304&from=EN

On those grounds, the Court (First Chamber) hereby rules:

Article 1(5) of Regulation (EU) 2015/751 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 29 April 2015 on interchange fees for card-based payment transactions must be interpreted as meaning that, in the context of an arrangement between a co-branding partner or an agent, on the one hand, and a three party payment card scheme, on the other, it is not a prerequisite of that scheme being regarded as issuing card-based payment instruments with a co-branding partner or through an agent and therefore being considered to be a four party payment card scheme, within the meaning of Article 1(5) of Regulation 2015/751, that that co-branding partner or agent act as an issuer, within the meaning of Article 2(2) of that regulation.

There’s some money made on commercial Curve cards routing to a personal credit/debit card.

But yeah I get what you mean :frowning:

I want to get us back on track to the topic of this thread; redeeming Curve Cash points through other other 3rd party reward programmes.

We understand that earning cashback/rewards/points is important for many of our customers & we want to help them maximise their benefits as much as we can.

One speculative but unlikely idea that comes to mind could be to have integrations with Avios, IHG, Marriott, Virgin Atlantic et al, allowing customers to ‘withdraw’ Curve Cash points and credit them to the balance of the rewards accounts.

Hypothetically, this could allow customers to earn rewards from their underlying credit card when they make purchase through Curve & if the purchase is made at a Curve Cash merchant, they could transfer the earned points into their Avios account, for example.

Speculatively there could be a time when Curve would issue co-branded cards with Avios, for example, where you would earn points every time you pay with Curve. If you were to have an Avios credit card selected in the app, this would mean double points on every purchase!

Of course, these are just off the cuff ideas and it is unlikely that Curve will able to achieve this level of corporate partnership at this stage in our journey. We are very happy to hear that you are thinking big & considering Curve as a part of this!

I’ll pass your suggestions onto our respective Business & Commercial teams, as I’m sure it is something that they have discussed before.

2 Likes

This sounds very similar to what American Express offers with its Membership Rewards points. The points can be transferred to a number of airlines and hotel groups, including Avios. Is Curve going to compete with American Express by offering this very useful points transfer facility? Nice way to get revenge for Amex pulling the plug on Curve earlier this year!

1 Like

If the rate was decent this would be something I’d personally like to see. If you don’t need the money in the short term, you tend to be able to get better value from points than from cashback. I can’t see Curve being able to pull off anything that’s remotely close to what others (inc amex) offer, but one can hope :wink:

2 Likes

Actually, to work this out by relative pricing we should be comparing Curve to competitor cards, right? Curve in theory should be offering similar features to whatever is similarly priced (from a premium perspective)

I understand Curve’s base product is entirely different than cards in a similar price range though.

So Curve (Metal) costs: £14.99 a month or roughly £180 a year

For that you get:

  • 1% cashback on 6 retailers (of which I couldn’t name any besides the 3 I have selected (can’t remember the names))
  • FX fee deleted (for up to £15k, despite it saying unlimited)
  • AXA Travel Insurance
  • AXA Gadget Insurance
  • LoungeKey Access (£15/visit)
  • Curve Customer Protection (which people have had trouble claiming on)

I’m not going to take a full nosedive into the insurance because I can’t actually find any documents easily displayed in the app, but I heard it doesn’t actually stretch to cover some higher end devices in terms of gadget insurance. It doesn’t cover the new iPhone’s bar the XR iirc.

American Express Preferred Gold Rewards costs: £140 a year, waived for the first year

For that you get:

  • World Renowned points system
  • 2 Complimentary Lounge Visits (Curve has 0)
  • Hotel room upgrades (and credits at certain hotels up to $100)
  • Travel Protection (inconvenience or accident money for you, your supplementary cardholder and your partner + your children under 23 years of age that are accompanying you)
  • Section 75 protection
  • 24/7 Customer Support that is known solely for its quality and efficiency
  • Supplementary Cards (one free)
  • Exclusive Amex Offers
  • Fraud guarantee (report a fraud and it’s knocked off your file until it’s fully investigated at the least)

Revolut Metal costs £120 a year or 12.99 a month.

For that you get:

  • £600 withdrawal allowance from ATMs
  • Unlimited interbank transfer
  • 0.1% cashback on all purchases within mastercards definition of Europe
  • 1% on all purchases outside of mastercard’s definition of Europe.
  • Concierge (2 requests a day)
  • Medical insurance (£75 excess)
  • Travel and baggage delay insurance (no excess)
  • disposable cards (virtual cards that self destruct the details
  • global card delivery (for those who lose a card abroad I presume)
  • escalated live chat support
  • 20% off their device insurance
  • one airport lounge for free a year

My apologies for this taking so long but your forum is very annoying with its “new user post limit” stuff.

This is exactly what I was getting at :slight_smile: pull this off and I’ll be a metal user for life.

Alternatively, the Amex rewards credit card gives you basically the same as gold except the two lounge passes (which you can get for less with lounge buddy) and the hotel program (very limited usefulness unless you often stay in luxury hotels) for a grand total of £0/year

@NFH I hadn’t thought about it like that :rofl:

@podgib If we keep comparing anything and everything rewards related back to Amex, then we can’t constructively move forward and stake our own claim in the market.

I think the best approach to take is to identify what Amex or any other credit card programmes do not do well, as opposed to looking at all the great things they do and feeling inferior. These big corporate beasts have been around for a long time, Curve is only three years old & we have barely started teething :sunglasses:

@Recchan We are well aware of Revolut & N26’s metal offerings (all Fintechs do talk to each other :wink:) & we know that things aren’t as good as they could be right now, but we are building more that just another card programme. This may set us back a little bit as others steam ahead but we have some proper aces up our sleeves!

2 Likes

I agree completely, which is why I’m not sure why Curve are pursuing an approach of mimicking the features that others provide (eg. insurance, cashback, lounge access). I don’t think Curve can compete in this arena, which is why I think that trying to is a bad strategy, and a better one would be to focus on things that make Curve unique (eg. some of the budgeting/sharing features that were previewed in a blog post last year.) Having inferior products in the premium subscriptions just makes it harder to provide good value.

Sounds good - looking forward to seeing what you produce :slight_smile:

1 Like

We’ve expanded both our Product and Engineering teams, so we are now better resourced to start delivering some very, very high quality features. I’m not going to give any ‘coming soon’ or speculative dates but patience will pay dividend :smiley:

2 Likes

Comparing things is what consumers do. We look at similarly priced offerings and go “this one is better value than this”

Can you give some examples? Amex has legendary customer support, good rewards programs and offers credit + charge cards (meaning you get statuatory protection on purchases between £100-30000)

I can’t think of anything off the top of my head that they don’t do well? Maybe if you could offer both Visa/MC/Maestro you’d get a little closer to offering something more unique.

Of course if you could get Discover/Amex on board for your wallet then you’d be on to win big customer spending.

It’s a shame because like, Curve is meant to be your entire wallet in one card, then had the thing that people typically put most spending on cut from them entirely.

Could you elaborate on these aces that are up Curve’s sleeves? I’m more than willing to wait but holding a carrot out in front of a donkey will only work if the donkey believes there’s a carrot. I can’t have another case of N26’s general UK manager telling me things are coming for months, without any progress at all being made.

I think Curve should truly nail “put all your spending through one card” and then go heavy on marketing. Strengthen up their Customer Protection so it’s a lot easier for a customer to claim + has a higher rate of acceptance (assuming it’s a genuine case)

This should let Curve start making real money, when loads of customers jump on board to cut their wallet size down from 500 cards to 1-2.

Curious though, since Curve has to spend the interchange to actually make the interchange, where does Curve make a profit (besides on corporate customers)? Like, if @Curve_Ivo is saying lets not just make another premium subscription that won’t provide enough value to customers but will still be expensive for Curve.

1 Like

Absolutely & we agree. My point was more that we need to look at the ‘why’ people choose certain products and what job these products/service solve or help with in their financial lives - more than just the face value of the offering.

This is a problem that we are trying to solve, in particular the low Amex/Discover/Diners Club acceptance across the UK as a whole. We don’t want to stop consumers using the services they love most but to enhance them through Curve.

This thread is not about new and upcoming features; this thread is about how Curve Cash can be used outside of Curve. This topic is covered here: Curve Product Update June 2019 and here: https://community.curve.app/c/product-and-features.

We are going off on a tangent here that is not appropriate for this particular thread. If you would like to make a new thread about this on the forum, we can find this information out for you & discuss it there. My knowledge extends as far as to know that we keeping things ticking over through subscriptions & interchange fees as we are both a merchant & n acquirer in the payment flow.