Amex Blocks Curve in Anti-Competitive Move


#223

You really should get in touch with a lawyer before trying to argue about what you clearly don’t understand. Regulatory framing doesn’t have anything to do with what something is or is not classified as.

Curve is a merchant, amex blocked it’s payment scheme from being used by Curve. It’s the same as if Visa or MC did it. If Amex had blocked only cards issued by them from being accepted by Curve, like any bank can do, then they would be in the right


#224

@megamaster Presuming no 14 days’ notice was given, Amex presumably terminated under s7: I suggest you read that section because it includes: adverse change in operation; insolvency; disproportionate number of disputed transactions; no reasonable belief of ability to honour agreement; breach of terms of the agreement. This assumes that there even was a merchant agreement in place (and not something only applicable to a beta).


#225

@megamaster You know, it is possible that some people who post are lawyers, or bankers, or have similar skills. In my submission, @manu seems to be entirely correct in his arguments.


#226

Again, s7 applies to the relationship between amex, the card issuer and the merchant. As far as we know, AMEX blocked all AMEX card a from curve!


#227

Well, Amex can block transactions to a merchant if they feel it is posing risk to them especially wrt compliance.

Further, If your explanation was so simple - why did Curve take 2 years to get amex back? The last Amex fiasco was May 2016. If they had filed a complaint before the regulator, I am sure they will hear back from them in lesser time frame :slight_smile:


#228

@megamaster. Amex is the card issuer (and processor, unlike Visa or Mastercard). Curve is the merchant, accepting those Amex cards for its services. Their relationship is governed by a contract. If it is the standard s7 contract, with Curve (Merchant) and Amex (Card Issuer and Processor) then I have provided you with the conditions for termination.


#229

Are you being purposefully disingenuous or you just don’t really understand?

I never spoke about what happens with the funds after they’re loaded into the curve ewallet. I’m talking about curve using amex payment scheme on the condition of a merchant!!!

If Amex blocked the curve merchant from it’s payments network, they can’t. If Amex blocked cards issued by them from sending payments to curve, that they can do.

What’s so hard to understand here?


#230

@megamaster Are you saying that, if my newsagent takes Amex (as a merchant), then Amex cannot terminate that merchant agreement under the relevant contractual terms? Curve is acting as a merchant, just like the newsagent in my example.


#231

They can only terminate the newsagent of he’s not abiding by the same merchant rules everyone using the same payments network has to follow.

Curve says it did abide by those rules. If so, amex can block cards issued by them from sending payments to curve, but cannot block it’s payments system from being used if no terms in the contract were breached

As I said in my original comment: “As an issuer amex may have an argument to block the cards they issue from certain transactions, but as a payment scheme they have to ensure a level playing field not only for merchants but also for other amex issuing banks”


#232

What i believe megamaster is trying to say, is to maintain a level playing field as a payment scheme, american express cannot block for example an amex card issued by barclays to top up curve. They can however block any amex card issued by amex themselves.


#233

@megamaster Amex can terminate under the relevant parts of the contract between it and the newsagent. The newsagent, just like Curve for Amex, is acting as a merchant: that is what it does to top-up the Amex wallet in its “new” scheme for Amex.

For example, under your suggestion, the Newsagent could be insolvent but Amex could only terminate if all other merchants were also insolvent. I trust you agree that is not the case.

Only Amex or Curve could tell us the reason for termination, but s7 enumerates certain areas.


#234

That is not what I’m trying to say, it’s exactly what I said in my original comment on this!


#235

Pls check https://network.americanexpress.com/globalnetwork/products-and-services/developers-and-tech-providers/network-policy/

Considering your argument, if Amex thinks that Curve violates anything on that policy or its subsections - they can block Curve.

its upto Curve to prove otherwise & i think thats what they will need to do


#236

@LittleTeo

Firstly, Amex have rescinded all third party Amex licenses. Secondly, the merchant agreement applies to all Amex cards (as Amex processes them, which is one reason why its charge cards are exempt from the EU interline fee cap). If @megamaster means that, unhappily that is not the case.


#237

@megamaster I think @manu and I have been clear. I suggest you wait until whatever news comes out and I very much hope you did not have too much in any Amex wallet on Curve.


#238

Don’t try to twist my words just so you don’t have to admit youre wrong. According to the law and European regulations amex has to provide EQUAL access to it’s payment system to merchants. If a merchant is not complying it obviously can terminate that specific merchant. Don’t know where your preposterous statement is coming from


#239

They have rescinded all third party licenses? No they haven’t, they have dozens worldwide. Second, that doesn’t at all matter, they’re different businesses (issuing and payment schemes). It’s the whole point. Again, read my original comment:

“As an issuer amex may have an argument to block the cards they issue from certain transactions, but as a payment scheme they have to ensure a level playing field not only for merchants but also for other amex issuing banks”


#240

@megamaster Believe as you wish. They have done so in the EU because of the interline fee cap, which is why banks in the EU no longer issue their own branded Amex cards (the MBNA airline cards in the UK, or the Lloyds avios cards). And, Curve is merely acting as a merchant subject to a merchant agreement with Amex.

I am afraid I cannot explain matters more clearly.


#241

Again that doesn’t matter. BY LAW, they are SEPARATE BUSINESSES. It doesn’t matter if the amex card scheme has 1 or 100 issuers. That’s the whole point! if Amex is acting as an issuer and blocking their cards (they can) or acting as a payment provider and blocking all amex cards (they can’t)

If you read my ORIGINAL comment I said exactly that

Trying to argue otherwise just shows how out of it you are, but then to insist is just silly


#242